Sat 20 Feb
∞ Permalink
Boy I feel ignorant now
| arjunbala4u: | Dei what do you think about art of living ? |
| me: | its ok... but they charge a lot..and they also trademark their teachings... thats a bit of corporate bullshit... you can actually get what they're teaching freely..if you know where to look.. |
| arjunbala4u: | Whats wrong in trade marking da ? |
| lol | |
| me: | if you really think that knowledge is free... etc.. you wouldn;t do it.. instead you would put up all your course material for free online... and live off in donations... |
| arjunbala4u: | all right |
| me: | trademark soaps/ electronics.... logos etc..but not this kind of knowlegde.. |
| arjunbala4u: | I agree, In Ramana Ashram, I noticed one thing, There were a significant proportion of non Indians to Indians |
| me: | yeah... i saw the lectures on youtube..and noticed the same.. |
| arjunbala4u: | Moreover, ask any bugger walking on the road about Ramana Maharishi or yoga, he will blink. Considering the fact that there is so much spiritual wealth in India, we still are people who run after money ourselves ?? |
| me: | hehe... the irony.... the east is trying to become the west..while the west is looking for support towards the east.. |
| arjunbala4u: | The other nations are aggresively taking to spirituality and well-being, including buggers who wrote books like 'Monk who sold the ferrari', which you could call a major rip off from our knowledge base |
| me: | there is no OUR here... you dint write it...there is no INDIA... there aren't any borders... its all man made... so anyone can take inspiration from anything.. just because something originated in this portion of land called india, it doesnt mean that it belongs to that place... |
| arjunbala4u: | I have read Sri Sri Ravishankar's book 'Guru of Joy', and he has lived the life of a pucca ascetic before all this. It doesnt belong here |
| But it was codified here right ? | |
| Codification being only an event, and not with a trade mark ? Ultimately the truth cannot be owned or demarcated on any ground | |
| me: | so ..you think INDIANS did it? were the aryans called indians? this land is a land of two diff races... there was no india back then...hinduism was a achievement of the aryan people... then again the aryans decended from the negro and so and so forth.... i cant believe how you consider those things as INDIAN...you might as well call them asians too... |
| arjunbala4u: | Its not about Hinduism da |
| okay | |
| wat do you have to say about the Mahabharata ? | |
| Do you agree that that arose after Hinduism arose ? | |
| me: | traditionally there is a great divide... that is the split between eastern thinking and western thought... that is it.. there is no Indian, chinese etc... they are more or less aligned... but there is always a split between dharmic religions and abhrahamic religions.. |
| arjunbala4u: | If you ask me, there is no divide |
| me: | back then.... during mahabharata days... i'm talking about the actual war rather than the story... they dint have this concept of religion..rather just a concept of how to live.. |
| arjunbala4u: | No da. I wouldnt agree. All sorts of practices existed then as well. It was the seeker who chose his path |
| me: | oh yeah..there is ... western religions are diffrent... they are more existential...while eastern religion is metaphysical.. |
| arjunbala4u: | Dei, its all about existence ultimately. In Christianity, Jesus said 'I Am', In Hinduism it was said that Brahman was without beginning or without end, beyond time and space........that means unalloyed existence only da |
| me: | no dude... when it came to hinduism..buddhism..etc.. it wasn't about this life at all.. it was always about the ultimate reality..which is purely metaphysical... western religions have a concept of creator god..and it is always about this life...and how to make THIS life happy... it was concernd mostly with morality and ethics.. |
| me: | machan christian teachings are non metaphysical..you are not allowed to contemplate on god in islam.... no matter how much i try to convince you..unless you relaise the basic split you wont agrree with me.. |
| arjunbala4u: | Macha, at the superficial level, Im not bothered.......ultimately Truth is the same....if its different, it cannot be true ?! If reality was different, then it cant be real ?? Its only perceptions of yours and mine that takes he focus off the reality and creaties disparity and diffrences |
| me: | there question here is about not you and me..its about the teachings of western and easter rel... they are both diff... the concept of heaven and hell...things like that are so western... the core of hinduism and buddhism is concept of dharam, karma...etc..which is totally absent from western rel... |
| arjunbala4u: | Moreover, concepts, systems etc..... are man-made.... you told me that right ?? Why bother about that then ?? |
| me: | i;m not bothered mama... the question is about the basic diff between the two thoughts... i'm just putting my points on the table... that is it... |
| arjunbala4u: | My belief, obviously personal......the concepts and systems were made to suit different mental capacities.......and to put them on the path to the Truth. Once the truth is reached, all differences drop off, all beliefs drop off, all learnings drop off, all efforts cease....only abidance and being in the present exists |
| no no | |
| you told me that last time machi | |
| now you are concerned about them ? | |
| me: | hmm.. there is no truth concept in christianity machan..you tell me where exacly in bible or koran does it say that there is a ultimate reality... beyod trancedence .... there, there is only a creator god who created the universe in 7 days and wanted man to be happy in this life and righteous so that he can go to this disney land called heaven... |
| arjunbala4u: | Anyhow, Im not criticizin you or anything. Its a healthy discussion, not meant at smashing egos |
| Macha.........Jesus said 'I Am' | |
| that itself means existence | |
| me: | dude... jesus is a man... jesus dint say meditate..jesus said love one another... now did buddha say love one another? may be to reduce your karma...but buddha was always concered about people knowing the ultimate workings of this universe so that they can free themselves ... there's so much asceticism involed in east... in west..asceticm is ungodly... there god "wants" you to enjoy the fruits he has provided.. |
| arjunbala4u: | Macha.....forget all that |
| Jesus said - Before he was, I AM | |
| what do you say to that ? | |
| you said you believe only in existence right ? | |
| Thats why Im talking about that..... | |
| If you dont want to talk about it, I respect that | |
| Im not forcing you in any way | |
| We can get back to our chat bout Art of Living | |
| Lol | |
| me: | i dont have a belief... unless i realise things myself i dont belive anything..that becomes a dogma then..but that doesnt mean i wont try it out... |
| yeah ok | |
| arjunbala4u: | Correct |
| Correct | |
| I agree with you.............have no beliefs, no concepts | |
| but that has to be your permanent nature | |
| is that possible ? | |
| Its not possible for me to be without beliefs or concepts for more than few minutes, because of my lousy mind ! | |
| me: | very impossible .... you can throw away concepts just like that... that was how you were nurutred..with lang.. ideas..concepts... you'd have to do a lot of unlearning... |
| arjunbala4u: | yes |
| true | |
| me: | *you can't |
| arjunbala4u: | yes, so do you agree that the mind is the source of all the bullshit ? |
| me: | not the mind dude.... its the chanelling of mind is bullshit... you dont channel it with this process called learning..language ... ideas... you do it by something called medidation... |
| arjunbala4u: | okay.....but thats all within the perimeter of the mind right ? Then whats your definition of mind ? |
| me: | hmm... i don't think so... i think if mind is properly channelled it could reveal more than what we know right now... but whether that revelation is THE ultimate reality is the question... you cant know unless you realise it for yourself.... |
| if you can get this pdf ..and read it | |
| URL http: | //faculty.virginia.edu/consciousness/Word%20Consciousness.pdf |
| arjunbala4u: | true |
| yo are right | |
| then how do you intend to realise the reality ? | |
| me: | unlearn...medidate.. look inwards.. its easy to say.. but takes balls of determination to do... |
| arjunbala4u: | correct |
| looking inwards is the only way ultimately | |
| because you were looking outwards all along these days, got pissed off and started looking inwards ? | |
| me: | dude... i'm not pissed at all.. i still take pleasure in "earthly delights"... its just that i've always questioned things..and wanted to know how things work.. thats why i'm a bit spiritual... i still have no belief in god or an higher power etc... but that doesnt mean i'm earthly... i have my own balance between my existential life and my metaphysical quest... |
| arjunbala4u: | Btw, do you know the actual meaning of Brahman or God or Reality ? |
| as per Vedanta | |
| ? | |
| me: | those are just concepts dude... dont seek meaning... you cant know the universe with meaning and concepts..that is so earthly and scientific way of doing things.. you can only REALISE brahman.. realiseation doesnt have to involve meaning at all.. its like enlightment.. you just "get it" .. it comes to you... |
| arjunbala4u: | you are not curious even ? you know so much already so why dont you just listen to this ? lol |
| : | ) |
| me: | yeah mama.. go ahead.. i'm always curiosn.. as i said b4..i think i have a questionig mind... so i'm really curious abt things... |
| arjunbala4u: | lets just enjoy the present moment and discuss whatever shit, and screw it all later ? |
| me: | no da go ahead .. tell me what vedanta says |
| or i'll finish my dosa in 5 mins..then we'll get back? | |
| arjunbala4u: | the meaning and attributes of brahman or God or reality, all being te same |
| is Sat-chit-anandam ........... existence - consciousness/awareness - bliss | |
| did you hear this anywhere ? | |
| me: | yeah i read abt sat chit anandam... |
| arjunbala4u: | That is the meaning |
| Truth cant obviously differe | |
| me: | ur just quoting texts m ama,,, dont use texts. tel me ur views mama' |
| abt reality | |
| arjunbala4u: | I dont have views.......because thats again an interpretation of something I havent experieced |
| moreover, If I experience, I believe that I wont have anything more to say..... | |
| me: | yeah tell thhat... how do u think the universe came abt? |
| arjunbala4u: | Macha, the ultimate reality is said to be beyond all forms of expression da |
| me: | dont just take that,, ask why? |
| arjunbala4u: | we are wasting our time discussing about it, instead of seeking it..... |
| exactly | |
| okay | |
| in sleep, did we have any arguments ? cliched I know, but tell me | |
| me: | hmm.. ok.. i'll finish eating and get back |
| arjunbala4u: | okay |
| one thing | |
| Im not really interested in the creation of th universe | |
| that is highly debated | |
| we can go on for hours with what if this and that etc | |
| I would prefer that we talk about ourselves | |
| and that pdf you sent | |
| lets talk about what we can relate to | |
| hope thats fine | |
| me: | yeah ok..read that while i'm eating |
| arjunbala4u: | ill have grub as wwell |
| brb | |
| 9 minutes... | |
| arjunbala4u: | back |
| check this out. Yes, its Ramana Maharishi who wrote this in a cave on a hill, and therefore its not by a double Phd. from some major university in a metropolis. http: | //www.arunachala-ramana.org/whoami.htm |
| He wrote it purely out of his experience, and there is no reference to anyones or any other philosophy, but out of pure experience. | |
| : | ) |
| nice stuff........the pdf is good material, but will take time to read | |
| me: | yeah.. a lot of time... skip first 9 chapters if r not interested in sciece |
| arjunbala4u: | its fine |
| I want to read the whole thing | |
| but you check out what I sent you | |
| me: | yeah..reading.. |
| arjunbala4u: | Cool da, even they talk of Adi Sankara....have you checked him out ? |
| me: | yeah dude... this is mostly a marriage betweeen quantum physics and eastern thought.... |
| yeah adi sankarar..i dont know lot abt him.. | |
| arrjunbala4u: | But let me ask you this.....is this guy who wrote this, talking out of experience or inferences ? |
| me: | this wasn;t writtern by a so called "saint" but by a professor.... it is as good as ramana |
| arjunbala4u: | Not that da. Is professor talking out of experience? |
| Lol....its not about saint or professor macha ! | |
| its about experience or inference ! | |
| Just curious | |
| me: | yeah..he might have experienced it... he is very much into eastern philosophy.. but then his audience is primarily wester.. so he doesnt bring some logic etc in the subject.. but that shudn't bother you... read it..and you might realise a few things.. |
| *so he DOES bring | |
| arjunbala4u: | macha it does bother me in the sense, that I dont really buy into people who talk of other peoples experiences |
| The same thing you said about the youtube vidoe the other day | |
| but its fine, since its information, I will read it anyhow | |
| me: | dude.. all along your quoting texts..your telling me what ramans; thought is...but you dont buy what other ppl are telling you... thats sounds like hypocrite... |
| arjunbala4u: | macha, i told you earlier.....lol |
| its not about ramana or saint or professor | |
| its about experience vs. inferences | |
| why you getting worked up ? | |
| Thats your funda also right ? | |
| me: | yeah da you infer something from their experience... thats what happnd with the prof too.. so there is no harm in reading that..in fact that shud be easy to understand..than reading abt someone's exp... |
| no da..i'm not trying to get a rise outta of you... | |
| arjunbala4u: | lol |
| nothings risin except my dick when its horny | |
| me: | yeah... can't help that... no matter what we do |
| arjunbala4u: | yeah |
| But dont think im stuck up on ramana | |
| I read some Osho and Krishnamurti and a german philosopher as well | |
| they all spoke from their experience | |
| which is why I said so | |
| But dont check out the link I sent you if you are against saints | |
| I dont intend to compel you, but you have a wrong notion about them. In fact society itself does, thanks to some clowns who ruined others reputations. Lol | |
| me: | ramana dint call himseflf a saint.. only other ppl call saint.. i only dont read ppl who call themselves saint |
| arjunbala4u: | You will soon realise that Ramana was and is not the body or the name |
| Nice stuff da | |
| In fact, this guy is saying the same thing ?! How un-surprising ? Its nice to be reminded that Truth is still one and only | |
| Even Nisargadatta's sayings are amazing | |
| Some guy in the Orkut Ramana's community put up a thread of Nisargadattas sayings | |
| Dei | |
| there ? | |
| Im not reading anymore of it da.....this bugger is referring to sages and others who have experienced reality......and is inferring from that.....I think I may as well take hints and read material written by those sages itself ?! | |
| Dont be hurt....Its my philosophy......I believe in experience and not inference drawn based on imagination | |
| Likewise, you dont have to read Ramana because I sent you the link | |
| i'm not reading it since you sent..i'm reading it because i like it... i dont mind reading anything... anyway brb | |
| arjunbala4u: | no issues |
| Just that he was quoteing nisargadatta every other time, I may as well pick up the latters book. | |
| lol | |
| I think its practical also | |
| : | ) |
| me: | heh..yeah. |
| arjunbala4u: | Lol |
| Try checking out experiences of people who met Nisargadatta, ramana, if posssible Buddha also.....they are fascinating | |
| Dont be hurt by my statements | |
| mama | |
| I agree with whatever is said in the pdf...... I will read it sometime patiently. No issues. But experience is my goal | |
| have you tried it ? | |
| Do you want help ? I can explain to you out of my experience | |
| me: | haha... machan i'm not hurt dude.. to be frank.. i dont think you can hurt me with your arguements etc.... so dont feel bad etc... |
| arjunbala4u: | thats nice to hear. |
| me: | dude... i dont need any help... hehe... :) what ever gave you that idea.. i'm not confused at all... infact i'm much more clearer in thought than you are... i cant vouch for this... but thats what i think.. |
| arjunbala4u: | If you are interested, I can explain what I have read on the mind |
| okay, then I need some help from you | |
| me: | yeh..that you can do..i'm interested in hearing your thoughts.... |
| arjunbala4u: | Whats the I thought ? |
| Most of the guys spoke about I thought or I concept otherwise known as ego | |
| me: | the I? hmm... the pdf calls it aware ness... i kinda agree with that... |
| arjunbala4u: | is it based on the pdf that you are talking or experience ? |
| me: | what i know... what i realise to a certain extent.. |
| arjunbala4u: | so its basically awareness of everything else, the I thought ? |
| Whats that to do with Realisation or reality ? | |
| me: | no... it is the awareness itself..not the thing that is aware of or the things the awareness is aware of... but just the awareness in itself.. |
| it is the reality... | |
| or it isn't | |
| arjunbala4u: | how macha ? what about other thoughts then ? |
| me: | may be... may be not... |
| what is a thought? | |
| arjunbala4u: | Good qn |
| I dunno | |
| how do you explain ? | |
| But one request............. | |
| me: | hmm... i'm not sure abt it..anyway i haven;t given much thought about what actually is a thought... may be later.... anyway on a call mama |
| arjunbala4u: | can we dis associate the discussion from a physical plane ? |
| fine | |
| no prob | |
| Then what of self realisation ? | |
| lol | |
| whats that connection with the mind ? | |
| me: | dude... on a call da.. |
| arjunbala4u: | now ? |
| shall I call you now, or do you want to refresh your concepts first ? | |
| me: | brb |
| arjunbala4u: | okay |
| okay mama, Im gonna shower now. Let me know when I should call you. | |
| Forgive my ignorance at all times. : | ) |
| Bye then | |
| /* A chat between me and my friend some years ago. Feels good to know that a lot has changed */ |
